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Oct. 2nd, 2018 03:22 pm
yakov_a_jerkov: (Default)
[personal profile] yakov_a_jerkov
This is a really big one.

NYT опубликовал результаты расследования финансов Трампа. Это огромная статья -- вроде, одна из самых длинных за всю историю NYT. Статья основана на конфиденциальных документах, относящихся к бизнесу отца президента, Фреда Трампа.

Одна из авторов публикации представляет ее так. Susanne Craig:
Russ Buettner, David Barstow and I got our hands on a massive trove of confidential docs - including 200 tax returns - from Fred Trump’s empire. We found Donald Trump received hundreds of millions from his dad, some of it via fraudulent tax schemes.
Trump Engaged in Suspect Tax Schemes as He Reaped Riches From His Father

Учитывая длину статьи о результатах расследования, NYT также опубликовал краткую версию, которую легко осилить.

11 Takeaways From The Times’s Investigation Into Trump’s Wealth
Donald J. Trump built a business empire and won the presidency proclaiming himself a self-made billionaire, and he has long insisted that his father, the legendary New York City builder Fred C. Trump, provided almost no financial help. “I built what I built myself,” the president has repeatedly said.

But an investigation by The New York Times has revealed that Donald Trump received the equivalent today of at least $413 million from his father’s real estate empire. What’s more, much of this money came to Mr. Trump through dubious tax schemes he participated in during the 1990s, including instances of outright fraud, The Times found.
Как пишут, для NYT явно обвинить кого-то в мошенничестве с налогами, тем более, обвинить действующего президента -- это a huge deal.

Будет ли это расследование иметь последствия для президентства Трампа? Есть люди, и их много, которые считают, что на данный момент Трампу уже никакая информация повредить не может -- Трампу достаточно ответить fake news, и его сторонники будут удовлетворены.

Я не принадлежу к этим людям. На мой взгляд, Трамп отнюдь не неуязвим. А какие последствия будут у этой публикации -- посмотрим.

P.S. Добавлю сюда этот комментарий. Richard Rubin:
Still reading this but what's remarkable to me is the strength of the language -- "fraud," "sham" "con -- etc. and what kinds of legal/journalism conversations must have gone into those word choices.

One other thought: Trump himself said he was audited every year starting in 2002. This story -- thorough and exhaustive and detailed and impressive as it is -- doesn't even get into any of whatever the IRS looked into the past 16 years.


P.S. Пишут, что последняя статья за авторством Susanne Craig в NYT была опубликована в начале 2017 года. То есть, видимо, она с тех пор занималась этим расследованием.

Date: 2018-10-02 09:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tijd.livejournal.com
Here is what can be said with certainty: Had Mr. Trump done nothing but invest the money his father gave him in an index fund that tracks the Standard & Poor’s 500, he would be worth $1.96 billion today. As for that $1 million loan, Fred Trump actually lent him at least $60.7 million, or $140 million in today’s dollars, The Times found.

Про роль отца Трампа было в принципе известно: https://yakov-a-jerkov.livejournal.com/1219968.html?thread=35747968#t35747968

О том, что обезьяна могла бы более успешно вкладывать деньги, говорил Уоррен Баффетт: https://yakov-a-jerkov.livejournal.com/1291275.html?thread=41570827#t41570827

Но новые подробные детали интересны. Дистилляция в одном твите от биографа Трампа:

Trump’s parents transferred "over $1 billion in wealth to their children, which could have produced a tax bill of at least $550 million under the 55 percent tax rate then imposed on gifts and inheritances." The Trumps paid $52.2 million, or about 5% https://t.co/SrcRs0mycQ

— Tim O'Brien (@TimOBrien) October 2, 2018



для NYT явно обвинить кого-то в мошенничестве с налогами, тем более, обвинить действующего президента -- это a huge deal

Во время предвыборной кампании в 2016 расследования NYT о мошенничестве Трампа прошли практически незамеченными, даже когда они публиковались на первой полосе и сопровождались красивой графикой.

Примеры:

Donald Trump Settled a Real Estate Lawsuit, and a Criminal Case Was Closed (про мошенничество с Trump Soho)
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/06/us/politics/donald-trump-soho-settlement.html

How Donald Trump Avoided Paying Taxes Using Other People’s Money (про мошенничество с креативным списыванием долгов)
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/politics/trump-taxes-loophole.html

Уэйн Бэрретт, другой биограф Трампа, удивлялся, почему телеведущие не задают вопросы про эти расследования во время бесчисленных интервью: https://yakov-a-jerkov.livejournal.com/1542845.html?thread=53993149#t53993149

Нынешние разоблачения, вероятно, ждет та же судьба.

Date: 2018-10-02 09:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com
// got our hands on a massive trove of confidential docs

Надо понимать, что эти документы у Трампов кто-то украл и продал газете. Скупка краденого, статья 175 пункт #.

Из беглого чтения мне показалось, что Трамп скажет, что он полагался на юристов и бухгалтеров, а сам он чист как младенец. Практика показывает, что у всех этих "профессионалов" тоже скорее всего рыло в пуху, но прежде чем они начнут стучать на Трампа их надо на чем-то прихватить как Коэна. It's a long shot but it's a shot.

Date: 2018-10-02 10:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yakov-a-jerkov.livejournal.com
Скупка краденого, статья 175 пункт #.

Мне кажется, что, в случае СМИ, это иначе регулируется.

Из беглого чтения мне показалось, что Трамп скажет, что он полагался на юристов и бухгалтеров, а сам он чист как младенец.

Сам Трамп отказался давать комментарии для статьи, но его брат от имени семьи так и сказал -- ученые люди документы готовили, мы на них полагались.

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Date: 2018-10-02 10:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yakov-a-jerkov.livejournal.com
Независимо от возможных нарушений закона, эта статья убедительно демонстрирует, что рассказы Трампа о самом себе, как выдающемся бизнесмене, который получил небольшой loan от отца и создал огромное состояние, -- полный BS.

Но многие ли, действительно, верили этим рассказам?

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Date: 2018-10-02 09:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://P/pk Ptichkin/ (from livejournal.com)
Так обсуждать нечего. Надо голосовать. Раз в два года на выборах, и каждый день деньгами.

Date: 2018-10-02 09:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nefedor.livejournal.com

А каждый день деньгами - это как?

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Date: 2018-10-02 09:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nefedor.livejournal.com

Во-первых, стандарты it’s a big deal в последнее время донельзя снизились.

Во-вторых, как обычно, даже если, все сведётся к вопросу лгал ли он под присягой, от чего Штирлиц мастерски отвертится.

Date: 2018-10-02 10:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yakov-a-jerkov.livejournal.com
Говорят, что criminal case тут невозможен, из-за срока давности, а civil -- возможен.

Но интересно имеет ли это значение для избирателей. В конце концов, перед выборами многие, кажется, искренне говорили о том, что Трамп -- выдающийся бизнесмен, который начал с небольшого кредита (в миллион) от отца и раскрутился до миллиардера.

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Date: 2018-10-02 09:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ddd-ddd.livejournal.com
Я бы прославил Трампа, если это была правда: мерзкий, античеловечный, регрессивный закон о наследстве должен быть уничтожен. Деньги, которые человек заработал и опалил налоги при жизни, с чего то должны быть опять подвержены налогу. Это полнейший бред и пережиток.

Date: 2018-10-02 10:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com
Закон плох, но это закон. Кроме тех случаев когда его нарушил Трамп.

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Date: 2018-10-02 10:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yakov-a-jerkov.livejournal.com
Я бы прославил Трампа, если это была правда

LOL. А то вы сомневаетесь, что правда -- прославляйте, не стесняйтесь.

Date: 2018-10-02 11:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tijd.livejournal.com
Трамп любит хвастаться тем, что отменил "estate tax", причем сделал это для несчастных фермеров.

"And our tax cut saves family farms and ranchers and small businesses from unfair estate tax, also known as the death tax...We got rid of that tax." (Trump hasn't gotten rid of the estate tax, merely raised the threshold for it. A tiny number of farmers paid it before.)

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) September 18, 2018



И то, и другое неверно. Закон не отменили, просто временно подняли потолок. 99% фермеров от этого ни холодно, ни жарко: https://yakov-a-jerkov.livejournal.com/1333007.html?thread=43713551#t43713551

Date: 2018-10-03 01:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nefedor.livejournal.com

А чем этот закон так плох?

По мне он выглядит справедливым: он предотвращает накопление богатства в кланах родственников, что хорошо. А почему получатели наследства должны его без налогов получать? Они его не заработали, ничего не делали, оно на них свалилось, ну и пусть платят, все справедливо. Что не так?

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Date: 2018-10-02 11:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lamantyn.livejournal.com
> including instances of outright fraud

А чем IRS занимался?

Date: 2018-10-03 12:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dasblinkenlight.livejournal.com
Так известно чем - проявлял гражданскую позицию, гоняясь за консвервативными организациями.

Date: 2018-10-02 11:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] affidavid.livejournal.com
Чота демократы припозднились с таким жырным компроматом. Пару лет назад это бы сработало, а сейчас только моральное удовлетворение.

Date: 2018-10-03 12:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yakov-a-jerkov.livejournal.com
Так это результат расследования, которое, видимо, заняло больше года. Его по заказу с сегодня на завтра не проведешь.

Да и не демократы его проводили.

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Date: 2018-10-03 12:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dziga123.livejournal.com
Вы что, не знали что Трамп единственный, за последние 40 лет, кандидат в Президенты которые не опубликовал свои tax returns?
Для этого может быть только одна причина - махинации с налогами.

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Date: 2018-10-03 02:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kremlin-curant.livejournal.com
Чтобы получить квартиру для малоимущих в Trump Village в Бруклине надо было 50 тысяч долларов взятку дать.

Date: 2018-10-03 01:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tummim.livejournal.com
Не пиздите. Там несколько моих друзей жили, и безо всякой взятки.

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Date: 2018-10-03 08:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tijd.livejournal.com
Интересно, почему семейство Трампов перестало строить дома для малоимущих. Это выгодный бизнес, который сопровождается государственными субсидиями. Семейство Кушнеров, к примеру, не брезгует.

Известный биограф Трампа проливает свет:

Although the Times article doesn’t discuss this, the All County hi-jinks weren’t the first time Fred had padded expenses to cheat the government. In 1954, he was called before the Senate to testify about how he overcharged the federal government millions of dollars by inflating costs associated with a taxpayer-subsidized housing development in Brooklyn. That led to Fred being banned from bidding on federal housing contracts. He then focused on state-subsidized developments. But in 1966 he was called before a state investigations board to sit through embarrassing public hearings that explored how he had overbilled New York State for equipment and other costs. Those hearings essentially marked the end of Fred’s career as a major developer of publicly subsidized housing.
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-10-03/trump-even-inherited-his-father-s-self-made-myth

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Деньги Трампу дал папа!

Date: 2018-10-03 12:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] livejournal.livejournal.com
User [livejournal.com profile] arbat referenced to your post from Деньги Трампу дал папа! (https://arbat.livejournal.com/992412.html) saying: [...] тельно демонстрирует..." - что все вместе иллюстрирует способность Якова партийно переобуваться [...]

Date: 2018-10-03 12:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dasblinkenlight.livejournal.com
Как пишут, для NYT явно обвинить кого-то в мошенничестве с налогами, тем более, обвинить действующего президента -- это a huge deal.

Да ладно вам, для NYT обвинить республиканца в чём угодно - говна вопрос. Газата "Правда" с врагами народа не церемонится.

Date: 2018-10-03 02:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://P/pk Ptichkin/ (from livejournal.com)
Эти, прямо скажем, идиотские сравнения NYT с Правдой напоминают мне старое Пелевинское "значит он на поршаке по зоне и ездил".

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Date: 2018-10-04 08:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elf-ociten.livejournal.com
никаких, незаконно полученные доказательства доказательствами не являются)))

Date: 2018-10-04 11:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ddd-ddd.livejournal.com
Только Викиликс гнусные воры, все остальные - журналисты. А как определяется журналист (лицензии нет) - по чувству принадлежности.
Edited Date: 2018-10-04 11:42 am (UTC)

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